Hello Kitty Copyright

[corpseesproc]

I've noticed a lot of people on here get very angry about copyright (I do as well btw)
I was wondering what you guys thought about big name copyright, people seem to think it's ok to steal sanrios intellectual property all the time and make money from it( ie hello kitty)
Whilst perusing easy I found two sellers both selling hello kitty adorned items, but that isn't what bothered me it's that they tried to claim that their designs (incorporating hello kitty) were copyrighted also and that the copyright belongs to them.
I'm sure no court in the land would actually listen if they tried to take anyone to court for stealing their already stolen pieces of work!
I emailed one of the sellers just to say that her ( don't get me wrong very lovely) iPad case was NOT intact copyright to her as sanrio own the copyright to hello kitty, her respond was Its ok everyone does it.
I love hello kitty and do enjoy seeing crafts featuring her I just don't get how anyone can actually be stupid enough to believe that they held any kind of copyright over her.
What do you think? Is it ok for people to steal big companies ideas? We all hate it when its the other way around.
Personally if I were sanrio and I saw someone making hello kitty crafts I'd probably let them off, but if I saw them claiming copyright for something that featured her I would sue them just for them having the audacity to claim such a ludicrous thing!

http://www.etsy.com/listing/69240501/pi ... -deco-case
http://www.etsy.com/shop/DANIELLEMIRAND ... _shop_more

[poxabomination]

Yeah, I mean... all those hello kitty jewelry and ipod covers.. well the only thing that makes them 'special' IS the hello kitty, otherwise its jst an ipod cover/necklace/bow with pink rhinestones and beads all over it, which you can't copyright because anyone can do it and a lot of people have done it, thats like copyrighting pink dreadfalls, you just can't do it So I agree with you on that. They can't claim the rights to bedazzled pink ipod covers; in fact my friends little sister has one that looks IDENTICAL except for the hello kitty. I guess if they sold something totally unique but also hello kitty related (I don't even know what... maybe toilet seat covers ) I could see it making more sense for it to be copyrighted.
I mean, I don't think the companies would care that they're using hello kitty to decorate it and selling them, but I DO think they would take issue with someone else trying to copyright their already copyrighted image.

[corpseesproc]

That's exactly what I think seems so silly
I do want one though haha my iPad is in no way putty enough right now, just waiting for my new case then I can get decorating! Wooo

[VixenSingsBlack]

There are laws about using character related materials (ie stickers, cabochons, fabric) for another business' profit. I don't know what they are though. For instance, I know it's illegal to sew from a brand name pattern (like McCalls) and sell the item. Those patterns are only for personal use. I very much dislike when people paint a branded character on something! At least Sanrio makes $$ when a cabochon or fabric is sold, but not when someone just paints her on tennis shoes.

[poxabomination]

I didn't know about the sewing patterns thing, thats weird but I guess it makes sense. I wonder how many people know about it? Its probably hard to tell if someone used the pattern unless you're an expert anywway, the majority probably goes undetected I bet.

[Gromidez]

I do a lot of fan art. Which means getting inspiration from licensed characters. And while what I do is designed by me and very often is only SIMILAR to the character in question (my "ninja turtles" for example don't even begin to look like the actual characters), I also never claim to own the rights to the licensed characters I am inspired by.

On my etsy I clearly state that when charging for items that are inspired by licensed characters I am charging for my time in making the item, not the likeness. I only use the likeness because it's fun, I'm a fan, and it's stuff that people like to see.

If someone saw something I made and decided to do something similar I can't complain. I've been inspired by other work as well. It would be like someone seeing pink dreads and thinking "Hey, I like pink dreads" and the original person trying to tell them they can't make their own pink dreads because it would be stealing.

I don't sell my patterns yet because I'd rather people buy what I make right now. But if I did sell my patterns, I'm not sure I'd tell people they weren't allowed to sell what they made from them, since they're doing the actual work. And why not get paid for your work?

[Phoenix]

If someone saw something I made and decided to do something similar I can't complain. I've been inspired by other work as well. It would be like someone seeing pink dreads and thinking "Hey, I like pink dreads" and the original person trying to tell them they can't make their own pink dreads because it would be stealing.

Similar things have happened before.

Anyway, I have brought crochet patterns before which came with strict rules that I cannot sell items I make from the pattern, rules that if you do sell what you make you have to link back to the original creator and patterns which I can use for commercial purposes as long as I pay a little extra for the privilege. What I did notice was the people who did not want their patterns to be used sold their own crochet and the ones who didn't care dealt soley in patterns.

[Gromidez]

If someone saw something I made and decided to do something similar I can't complain. I've been inspired by other work as well. It would be like someone seeing pink dreads and thinking "Hey, I like pink dreads" and the original person trying to tell them they can't make their own pink dreads because it would be stealing.

Similar things have happened before.

Anyway, I have brought crochet patterns before which came with strict rules that I cannot sell items I make from the pattern, rules that if you do sell what you make you have to link back to the original creator and patterns which I can use for commercial purposes as long as I pay a little extra for the privilege. What I did notice was the people who did not want their patterns to be used sold their own crochet and the ones who didn't care dealt soley in patterns.

I've seen more patterns that people say you can't sell what you make than ones that say you can. I can kind of understand the idea behind it, you don't want to do all the work coming up with the design just to have someone work it up and reap the benefits, but I think it's silly to say someone shouldn't expect money for their work. I think if you want to make money for you work, you sell it. So sell the patterns. And when someone puts work into making that pattern they can sell their work. I think it's fair to request that people say where they got the design from, though, whether they sell the item or give it away. To claim it's your own work is kinda skeevy.

[poxabomination]

If someone saw something I made and decided to do something similar I can't complain. I've been inspired by other work as well. It would be like someone seeing pink dreads and thinking "Hey, I like pink dreads" and the original person trying to tell them they can't make their own pink dreads because it would be stealing.

Similar things have happened before.

Anyway, I have brought crochet patterns before which came with strict rules that I cannot sell items I make from the pattern, rules that if you do sell what you make you have to link back to the original creator and patterns which I can use for commercial purposes as long as I pay a little extra for the privilege. What I did notice was the people who did not want their patterns to be used sold their own crochet and the ones who didn't care dealt soley in patterns.

I've seen more patterns that people say you can't sell what you make than ones that say you can. I can kind of understand the idea behind it, you don't want to do all the work coming up with the design just to have someone work it up and reap the benefits, but I think it's silly to say someone shouldn't expect money for their work. I think if you want to make money for you work, you sell it. So sell the patterns. And when someone puts work into making that pattern they can sell their work. I think it's fair to request that people say where they got the design from, though, whether they sell the item or give it away. To claim it's your own work is kinda skeevy.

haha did you come up with the 'pink dreads' on your own or did you read my comment? If you did its a weeeird coincidence

I definitely think its fine to sell the item with hello kitty, mario, nija turtles, etc. on it, but this person is claiming copyright on it which is a totally different story.

[iamdolleyes]

I still can't understand why we have a section on this website where people complain about having their photos stolen (copyright issues) but the line seems to be fuzzy on 'big corporation' copyright. No it isn't legal to sell an item with a trademarked or copyright character on it which you do not own the rights to. There is no difference between saying "I own the copyright on this hello kitty necklace I made" and not saying anything at all, it still isn't legal if you don't own the image. If sanrio, or nintendo, or disney, or coca cola choose to ignore your etsy/ebay/website/anime convension booth then lucky you, however it does not mean it is "legal". Many companies are fine with 'fan art' and are very aware that it happens in specific places but there are an equal amount of companies who are not. Frankly, if I went and started printing tshirts with images on them nicked from the 'show off your art' section that I did not create, I would be violating copyright laws. Why does that get fuzzy when the owner is a corporation? I'm as anti big-corporation socialist hippy as the next guy, but I don't consider the viable option to be stealing from them....I'd rather just create my own art thanks. If its my art I can decide if I want to put it on a tshirt or a mug or make a necklace out of it, Sanrio gets to make that decision for themselves as well (and they do frequently protect their trademarks)

the pink dreads example, while cute, is not relevant. the creator of a specific IMAGE holds the copyright for that IMAGE. A copyright does not cover something like an idea or a process automatically, there are different legal channels for that. If people don't know the laws regarding selling another person's intellectual property, it is their responsibility to look and learn before opening a business. I mean, if you break any other laws they don't take "But I didn't KNOW" as an excuse right? This information is out there for the taking.


TL:DR response:
No it is not okNever confuse leniency for legality.

[Gromidez]

I still can't understand why we have a section on this website where people complain about having their photos stolen (copyright issues) but the line seems to be fuzzy on 'big corporation' copyright. No it isn't legal to sell an item with a trademarked or copyright character on it which you do not own the rights to. There is no difference between saying "I own the copyright on this hello kitty necklace I made" and not saying anything at all, it still isn't legal if you don't own the image. If sanrio, or nintendo, or disney, or coca cola choose to ignore your etsy/ebay/website/anime convension booth then lucky you, however it does not mean it is "legal". Many companies are fine with 'fan art' and are very aware that it happens in specific places but there are an equal amount of companies who are not. Frankly, if I went and started printing tshirts with images on them nicked from the 'show off your art' section that I did not create, I would be violating copyright laws. Why does that get fuzzy when the owner is a corporation? I'm as anti big-corporation socialist hippy as the next guy, but I don't consider the viable option to be stealing from them....I'd rather just create my own art thanks. If its my art I can decide if I want to put it on a tshirt or a mug or make a necklace out of it, Sanrio gets to make that decision for themselves as well (and they do frequently protect their trademarks)

the pink dreads example, while cute, is not relevant. the creator of a specific IMAGE holds the copyright for that IMAGE. A copyright does not cover something like an idea or a process automatically, there are different legal channels for that. If people don't know the laws regarding selling another person's intellectual property, it is their responsibility to look and learn before opening a business. I mean, if you break any other laws they don't take "But I didn't KNOW" as an excuse right? This information is out there for the taking.


TL:DR response:
No it is not okNever confuse leniency for legality.

I think you're either ignoring or misunderstanding where this conversation went and what was meant by the pink dreads example. You seem a little angry and like you're taking it personally, so maybe. Your photos have been stolen before and you're not getting what we are talking about which is different. Stealing/selling someone elses photos is a breach of copyright laws. No one has argued. That. The point we've since been making is work based on INSPIRATION of copyright images or licensed characters. Can no one ever paint their own redhead mermaid because disney owns the rights to the very concept? What about pirates with dreads and eye makeup? A spiderweb? The silhoette of a bat... thus the pink dreads example. If someone posts pictures of their dreads, pink with purple streaks, and being two of my fave colors I go "oh! That's a great idea" and make something similar, am I breakimng the law? No. If I use that other person' s pictures to sell my dreads on ebay, however, I am. See the diff? That's what we were talking about.

[iamdolleyes]

lol no i'm not angry, I just dont add smileys and emotes to be sure everyone knows I'm all flowerpuffs and fairydust and stuff. I don't need to be stolen from to feel that stealing is wrong, either.

This conversation about selling 'copyright characters' that you do not own comes up all the time, and I can't understand why since it is pretty clear. Sorry if you're offended because you sell nintendo stuff, but it is how it is and opinions don't change laws. Even if its "inspired" by nintendo/disney/sanrio you are making money on something that doesn't belong to you, and I can't understand attempts to justify/defend it. I mean lets be honest, a "hello kitty" necklace on etsy is being sold BECAUSE it is hello kitty, not because its made by Jane Doe the unheard of artist in nowhere, USA. Jane Doe is making money because it is sanrio "inspired", that is why it is not legal. There is a lot of leniency yes, and lots of people make money off of things they don't own..but it is not legal, and I do not htink it is morally ok - which is what the OP asked for, opinions and discussion

I'm also not misunderstanding anything, the "original point" of this thread is people making items with licensed characters that do not belong to them, and how it makes them angry...to which I agree, and explain further. The concept of a conceptual idea, and intellectual property (style/color of dreads VS mario/luigi) are not in the same ballpark when it comes to copyrights. This is why I commented on the dreads thing, there is a lot of misconceptions in the intellectual copyright world (I mean, we've all heard that "mail yourself a copy and keep it sealed and it holds up in court" thing right? that's false too) I wasn't confused about the difference between using stolen pictures, however someone did reference a girl (previously a member I believe) who tried to cite 'copyright infringement' for making dreads the same color as hers, and that is what I was referring to. It was pretty clear, sorry you misunderstood.

Of course you can paint as many red headed mermaids as you like, but you can't sell THAT one specifically; nor can you purchase a hello kitty sticker, throw it under some resin and sell a 'sanrio hello kitty' cabochon necklace, and claim "I'm only charging for my time..not for the copyright!" legally. The image in question is the problem.

personally I don't care if every single person in the world makes coke bottle cap earrings, and crafts up licensed character items to sell on etsy but I never will because not only it is not legal...but I feel its morally wrong. And like I said, I'd rather be proud of something I made myself entirely. Also, even if everyone in the world does it I will still reply to an inquiry about the 'legality' with the facts about it, since they seem to far and few between

<--- happyface

[poxabomination]

lol at happy face I definitely agree that it isn't legal, but I don't necessarily agree that it isn't morally ok when it's one of those insanely massive corporations that everyone and their mother is giving money to.. I don't know if that makes sense. I think its just coming from the rebellious side of me I definitely see your point though.

my question is, if someone buys a sticker, figurine, whatever, of hello kitty for example, adds it to a decoration, and resells it, would that technically be illegal if they don't go and claim copyright? I mean because you can be a seller of hello kitty merchandise legally, like when you buy things wholesale to sell to people, you know? Which would mean that money IS going to Sanrio when you sell your item.Basically, is there a legal difference between selling an unaltered hello kitty keychain in your shop that you bought from a legal source, and altering that keychain and then selling it? I don't know if that makes sense. You seem to know a lot more about the legal stuff than I do. and then, what about places like cake shops, for example, that have spiderman themed cakes and whatnot? The line seems blurry to me, if you could clarify that would be great I'm really very curious.

and I think what the op meant was, yeah, it technically isn't legal for you to be selling hello kitty stuff, but don't you think it's absolutely crazy when people try to go ahead and copyright and already copyrighted item?

[trippytroll]

well im not sure if it falls under the same thing, but there was a girl who done dr who patterns and made stuff from it and i think others were selling the stuff theyd made from the patterns and she got into big shyte with the bbc ue to copyright, i think they were trying to work with her on it though, so people should be aware that the big companies do go after small people

[Gromidez]

Smiley face aside, that response was rather snarky for no good reason.

Anyway, you're stating that inspiration is morally wrong. I don't agree. And you can't really go by legality to judge morality because quite often they do not coincide.

It is perrfectly legal to draw in exact likeness the little mermaid character, name her ariel and call her the little mermaid if the drawing is in some way a satire or making a political statement. This drawing can be in a newspaper that gets sold thus making the paper and the artist of said drawing money, none of which goes to disney.

I've never heard of any tattoo artists being sued for tattooing licensed images on ppls skin for profit.

I've seen the thousands of costumes that are pretty much exact likenesses of trademarked characters buy with generic names (captain pirate) that make them ok and free of infringement.

My point is that my art (which btw isn't only fan art so I am plenty proud of everything I do), doesn't look like the licensed art in question. Or if it does is a completely different medium, thus is derived and not copied. I'm nottracing a picture of mario and luigi and then selling it as my own personal drawing. However, plenty of artists especially seen at comic conventions DO draw licensed characters all the time with no issues... I've taken a pictures of a character and thought "hmm that would be a fun challenge to create in knit/crochet/clay/etc". I then do a lot of work to make it happen. So again I'm quite proud of my skills.

You act like there is something inherently wrong or dishonest about inspired work. But I'm gunna go ahead and guess that you didn't invent dreads or whatever it is you do (assuming based on the board). So even if you come up with your own designs and color schemes you're copying someone at some point. And that's true of just about everyone, period. The awesome stuff on showoffs is all inspired by something. Pig noses and octupii tentacles and kitty cats. I didn't create cats but a cute kitty hat may sell better than a plain black one, am I in the wrong for not being "original" enough?

I don't argue that outright copyright infringements is immoral and unethical. I do however argue that the gray areas should be so black and white. And not because i m biased. I think my tattoo artist deserves to be able to make money off his yrs of skill and practice and talent. I guess I'm silly like that ~shrug~

[Lady J]

and I think what the op meant was, yeah, it technically isn't legal for you to be selling hello kitty stuff, but don't you think it's absolutely crazy when people try to go ahead and copyright and already copyrighted item?

Not just technically illegal, its downright dangerous. Hello Kitty is a trademark, which means the owner has to vigorously defend it or lose the right to call it a trademark, so claiming copyright on it would indeed be crazy. It would be like signing your name on the bank vault you just robbed.

[poxabomination]

and I think what the op meant was, yeah, it technically isn't legal for you to be selling hello kitty stuff, but don't you think it's absolutely crazy when people try to go ahead and copyright and already copyrighted item?

Not just technically illegal, its downright dangerous. Hello Kitty is a trademark, which means the owner has to vigorously defend it or lose the right to call it a trademark, so claiming copyright on it would indeed be crazy. It would be like signing your name on the bank vault you just robbed.

exactly!

[TwiggyDEVOUR]

I think what it basically comes down to is the fact people using such charactors like Hello Kitty are doing for the profit margin. It's a well known character which is much loved, yet as shown above in the link, is not property of persons wishing to use the image to sell their images. Because, whether fan or not, the image of the character is what drives the sale.

Take DanielleMiranda
http://www.etsy.com/shop/DANIELLEMIRAND ... _shop_more
..the items in themself *minus the character branding* are very cute and well made, thus the branding with the use of such characters is unnecessary.. but adding them boosts the value and interest. So by using the brands, she is gaining from it.

..but how funny to say she owns copyright of designs that use someone else's work *roll eyes*

[pinky]

this subject gets pretty confusing to me.. i use things that i buy in dreads and other objects and personally i don't see a issue with it because i paid the company for the item i used. if that's illegal i'm not really sure but i'd imagine if i went and made a hello kitty out of clay and used it i could see issues but it seems to get fuzzy when you pay for a item to use it in something else.

[Gromidez]

this subject gets pretty confusing to me.. i use things that i buy in dreads and other objects and personally i don't see a issue with it because i paid the company for the item i used. if that's illegal i'm not really sure but i'd imagine if i went and made a hello kitty out of clay and used it i could see issues but it seems to get fuzzy when you pay for a item to use it in something else.

Right. If I make something out of fabric, am I not able to sell that item if the fabric is trademarked (as most are)?
If I am allowed to sell the items, can I not mention the fabric? If I made a cute purse out of batman fabric can I not sell it as a batman purse? There's so much gray and so much that, to me, doesn't always make sense.

[corpseesproc]

this subject gets pretty confusing to me.. i use things that i buy in dreads and other objects and personally i don't see a issue with it because i paid the company for the item i used. if that's illegal i'm not really sure but i'd imagine if i went and made a hello kitty out of clay and used it i could see issues but it seems to get fuzzy when you pay for a item to use it in something else.

Right. If I make something out of fabric, am I not able to sell that item if the fabric is trademarked (as most are)?
If I am allowed to sell the items, can I not mention the fabric? If I made a cute purse out of batman fabric can I not sell it as a batman purse? There's so much gray and so much that, to me, doesn't always make sense.

I don't know if you've heard of weenotions? They make washable nappies but custom ones, they won't use a copyrighted character or fabric because of the trouble they can get in, as they are quite big now they enquirer directly to the copyright holders a few times and were told no, I think most stuff like that is ok for personal use but not for commerical purposes? It's safer and easier to steer clear. But then people love hello kitty etc :s

[Gromidez]

O

this subject gets pretty confusing to me.. i use things that i buy in dreads and other objects and personally i don't see a issue with it because i paid the company for the item i used. if that's illegal i'm not really sure but i'd imagine if i went and made a hello kitty out of clay and used it i could see issues but it seems to get fuzzy when you pay for a item to use it in something else.

Right. If I make something out of fabric, am I not able to sell that item if the fabric is trademarked (as most are)?
If I am allowed to sell the items, can I not mention the fabric? If I made a cute purse out of batman fabric can I not sell it as a batman purse? There's so much gray and so much that, to me, doesn't always make sense.

I don't know if you've heard of weenotions? They make washable nappies but custom ones, they won't use a copyrighted character or fabric because of the trouble they can get in, as they are quite big now they enquirer directly to the copyright holders a few times and were told no, I think most stuff like that is ok for personal use but not for commerical purposes? It's safer and easier to steer clear. But then people love hello kitty etc :s

That's why I feel sometimes its a little silly. You've sold me the fabric. You've made the money you were hoping to from the creation of this product. I'm now putting my hard work into it and want to make money from that, why is that wrong?
And is it only trademarked characters? What about those fashion fabrics? I like this one because its got pretty pink flowers and people will like purses with pretty pink flowers on them, but because its gucci I'm screwed?

I dunno. I pride myself on being a good person. I don't lie, cheat or steal. I don't intentionally hurt others or screw people over or take advantage of them. But being good doesn't always mean being lawful. In fact sometimes its quite the opposite. I simply don't agree that someone shouldn't be able to profit from their hard work, period. Now, as for the original post, I would never claim copyright on a trademarked item, obviously. But again, I can't use something I purchased fair and square as a piece of my art? Seems off, no?

[trippytroll]

this subject gets pretty confusing to me.. i use things that i buy in dreads and other objects and personally i don't see a issue with it because i paid the company for the item i used. if that's illegal i'm not really sure but i'd imagine if i went and made a hello kitty out of clay and used it i could see issues but it seems to get fuzzy when you pay for a item to use it in something else.

Right. If I make something out of fabric, am I not able to sell that item if the fabric is trademarked (as most are)?
If I am allowed to sell the items, can I not mention the fabric? If I made a cute purse out of batman fabric can I not sell it as a batman purse? There's so much gray and so much that, to me, doesn't always make sense.

I don't know if you've heard of weenotions? They make washable nappies but custom ones, they won't use a copyrighted character or fabric because of the trouble they can get in, as they are quite big now they enquirer directly to the copyright holders a few times and were told no, I think most stuff like that is ok for personal use but not for commerical purposes? It's safer and easier to steer clear. But then people love hello kitty etc :s

when i make cloth nappies i dont use character copyrighted stuff either as it can be hassle, i know people that have been caught out by it.i have in the past made them on special request for people like friends, but it was never advertised and no money exchanged either.

[MistressH]

I know someone who was threatened with legal action by dc comics for using some super hero material she bought off ebay to make rat hammocks to sell.... I cant imagine how scary getting that letter would have been!

[Gromidez]

I know someone who was threatened with legal action by dc comics for using some super hero material she bought off ebay to make rat hammocks to sell.... I cant imagine how scary getting that letter would have been!

Some of the custom corsets I've made had cute liner material, usually themed, that somehow matched the fashion fabric chosen. While I never sold my Joker costume, as it was made for me, the liner material in the corset is batman themed, cuz that's cute. Now I can never sell that corset?

On a similar note, what if you have overstock of fabric, which happens to include trademarked fabric, and try to sell it on ebay or etsy? Is that illegal?