Would you like a banned members list?

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Should permanently banned members be named publically?

Poll ended at Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:01 pm

yes
114
97%
no
4
3%
 
Total votes: 118

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by MrsEss » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:14 pm

hehehehehee - i'm so glad i lurked for months before actually typing ANYTHING on this forum! :D & Sammu - you rock at getting the repeat offenders told.
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by starlight » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:47 pm

I always lurk forums before I join, to get a feel of how things run.. I lurked on HH for like 6 months haha.. then it took a further one or two to get activated :lol:

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Pallidity » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:41 am

Well, 126 results could be a pain to sift through, to be honest. If I get more than a page or two in the results for a search I do I usually decide it isn't worth it. I'm too busy to sift through 10 pages of results and whatnot. But like I said, I find it hypocritical to take the time to tell a member to search for it instead of answering the question or searching for and linking to the thread...or at the very laziest suggesting what to search.

I think something like this would deter me from wanting to post on here if I was a new member. Same goes for something like this. While I know that particular member was being difficult about quite a few things at that time, if I was new and was told to look for something or saw someone being treated that way after first joining, I probably wouldn't bother to post much, if at all, for fear of being crabbed at.

And for the record, old board = no results, heavenly hair = 117 matches. Neither term is included in the thread linking to the old board, and you can't search "HH" or even "old HH" and get any results through the search. heavenlyhair isn't included in the thread either. There's nothing to search that would be common sense that would bring up that thread.

There's also no official rule about posting separate threads for showoffs. The response on how to post showoffs in her other thread was a lot more appropriate, really.

I've joined several other boards for different things, and have never had any borderline or blatantly rude comments thrown at me for violating a rule when my post count has been low, whether it's a clear or unspoken rule, like I've seen some members deal with on here. The staff in DTBD has been trying to reduce this recently because newer members were leaving the cult due to the rude comments they were receiving that were along the same lines. I would hate to think that people wouldn't want to stay on this board for similar reasons :?

I probably wouldn't be so opinionated on the issue if we didn't have so many people unhappy about it in DTBD recently, though.
Last edited by Pallidity on Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by ScarletLady » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:55 am

^^^ some good points Pallidity
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Madii » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:28 am

Pallidity wrote:Well, 126 results could be a pain to sift through, to be honest. If I get more than a page or two in the results for a search I do I usually decide it isn't worth it. I'm too busy to sift through 10 pages of results and whatnot.
Busy? Or lazy? "Well, I could search for it but I just can't be bothered," is not an attitude that's going to garner much positive response. The information is there, but for whatever reason you don't want to go through the effort to get it - well, you're at the mercy of the people who respond then. They might be nice and hand it to you on a silver platter, or they might tell you to get off your arse and look for it yourself. Whatever happened to working for what you want to get in the world?
Pallidity wrote:But like I said, I find it hypocritical to take the time to tell a member to search for it instead of answering the question or searching for and linking to the thread...or at the very laziest suggesting what to search.
Hypocritical how? Hypocrisy is telling someone to search for the information when you yourself don't search for the information. That's what being hypocritical in this instance would be. I don't see how telling someone to search for information instead of giving it to them is hypocritical. Perhaps you think that that's what they should do, which is a moral call and that's pretty impenetrable - but I don't think it comes under hypocrisy.
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Pallidity » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:35 am

Madii wrote:
Pallidity wrote:Well, 126 results could be a pain to sift through, to be honest. If I get more than a page or two in the results for a search I do I usually decide it isn't worth it. I'm too busy to sift through 10 pages of results and whatnot.
Busy? Or lazy? "Well, I could search for it but I just can't be bothered," is not an attitude that's going to garner much positive response. The information is there, but for whatever reason you don't want to go through the effort to get it - well, you're at the mercy of the people who respond then. They might be nice and hand it to you on a silver platter, or they might tell you to get off your arse and look for it yourself. Whatever happened to working for what you want to get in the world?
Pallidity wrote:But like I said, I find it hypocritical to take the time to tell a member to search for it instead of answering the question or searching for and linking to the thread...or at the very laziest suggesting what to search.
Hypocritical how? Hypocrisy is telling someone to search for the information when you yourself don't search for the information. That's what being hypocritical in this instance would be. I don't see how telling someone to search for information instead of giving it to them is hypocritical. Perhaps you think that that's what they should do, which is a moral call and that's pretty impenetrable - but I don't think it comes under hypocrisy.
I probably should have clarified. When someone comments about what a waste of time it is for someone to be asking a question that's already been asked, the person who is replying but being of no real help is being hypocritical. They are wasting the time of the poster by offering no help, as well as their own to post a rude or completely unhelpful comment and anyone who searches for the same question and comes across a thread of comments that do not answer the question or guide the person to the answer in any way.

I think it's ridiculous to take an attitude of people needing to be handed things on silver platters, but I do not think it's ridiculous to help people out. This forum has a massive amount of information and many threads. Aside from some information being hard to find through search, going through all of the threads on here to find something can be incredibly time consuming. Things are constantly being moved, rules are being adjusted, etc.

Also, I don't appreciate being called lazy because I don't want to sift through 10 pages of hits to possibly find an answer to a question I have. Not everyone on here has plenty of time to be on here. Personally, I'm taking 18 hours of summer classes and interning at a shelter, and considering the age group of many of the members on here I'd assume that most are either in school or are working. Depending on situation, one may or may not have the time to search through MANY hits hoping to find an answer to one thing. That does not make them lazy. Frankly, I know better than to ask a question that's probably been answered on here if I don't have the time to look it up, but I've been on here for ages and know better. Many other online communities don't react very negatively to having to repeat themselves or state rules that are not incredibly obvious, so I would think it's fair to assume that many people would not expect to receive anything but help when asking for it.

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Madii » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:57 am

Pallidity wrote:When someone comments about what a waste of time it is for someone to be asking a question that's already been asked, the person who is replying but being of no real help is being hypocritical.
But I wasn't referring to criticising someone for wasting time. I was referring to telling someone to search for information when they don't do it themselves. That comes under hypocrisy: "do as I say, not as I do". Most people who respond with asking people to use the search facilities don't comment on the wasting of time? I don't think I've seen it, only them telling the poster to use the search facilities. Wasting time isn't mentioned anywhere.
Pallidity wrote:Also, I don't appreciate being called lazy because I don't want to sift through 10 pages of hits to possibly find an answer to a question I have. Not everyone on here has plenty of time to be on here. Personally, I'm taking 18 hours of summer classes and interning at a shelter, and considering the age group of many of the members on here I'd assume that most are either in school or are working. Depending on situation, one may or may not have the time to search through MANY hits hoping to find an answer to one thing. That does not make them lazy.
My turn to apologise - none of my comments were directed at you personally, although I do see why it read that way. I always use the general "you" when debating these things, I wasn't accusing you specifically of being lazy, merely questioning your hypothesis that people who don't search for information are "too busy" to do so, and that that view is entirely subjective. I apologise for not being clearer in my meaning - I should probably use the indeterminate "one", but it's rather dropped out of the vernacular.
Pallidity wrote:Many other online communities don't react very negatively to having to repeat themselves or state rules that are not incredibly obvious, so I would think it's fair to assume that many people would not expect to receive anything but help when asking for it.
Huh. Perhaps I'm just a cynic, but in all my time on various Internet forums and communities, the last thing I tend to expect is lenience and a "softly softly" approach. You must've been hanging around some much nicer places than I have, the last thing I'd ever expect from the Internet is consideration.
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Pallidity » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:12 am

Madii wrote:
Pallidity wrote:When someone comments about what a waste of time it is for someone to be asking a question that's already been asked, the person who is replying but being of no real help is being hypocritical.
But I wasn't referring to criticising someone for wasting time. I was referring to telling someone to search for information when they don't do it themselves. That comes under hypocrisy: "do as I say, not as I do". Most people who respond with asking people to use the search facilities don't comment on the wasting of time? I don't think I've seen it, only them telling the poster to use the search facilities. Wasting time isn't mentioned anywhere.
Pallidity wrote:Also, I don't appreciate being called lazy because I don't want to sift through 10 pages of hits to possibly find an answer to a question I have. Not everyone on here has plenty of time to be on here. Personally, I'm taking 18 hours of summer classes and interning at a shelter, and considering the age group of many of the members on here I'd assume that most are either in school or are working. Depending on situation, one may or may not have the time to search through MANY hits hoping to find an answer to one thing. That does not make them lazy.
My turn to apologise - none of my comments were directed at you personally, although I do see why it read that way. I always use the general "you" when debating these things, I wasn't accusing you specifically of being lazy, merely questioning your hypothesis that people who don't search for information are "too busy" to do so, and that that view is entirely subjective. I apologise for not being clearer in my meaning - I should probably use the indeterminate "one", but it's rather dropped out of the vernacular.
Pallidity wrote:Many other online communities don't react very negatively to having to repeat themselves or state rules that are not incredibly obvious, so I would think it's fair to assume that many people would not expect to receive anything but help when asking for it.
Huh. Perhaps I'm just a cynic, but in all my time on various Internet forums and communities, the last thing I tend to expect is lenience and a "softly softly" approach. You must've been hanging around some much nicer places than I have, the last thing I'd ever expect from the Internet is consideration.
Gotcha :)

I don't think it's necessarily said that time is being wasted, but it's implied when the comments aren't particularly friendly and disregard the question. It's one thing to say "you should try searching for blah blah" or "this has already been asked MANY times, so you should try searching the next time you have a question, but my answer is blahblah" and another thing to say the person needs to lurk more. At least, in my opinion, that says that the replier is blowing off the question and also trying to make the OP feel dumb for not searching.

Like I said, though, I probably wouldn't have the same opinion if I hadn't been dealing with members in DTBD that were leaving because of similar issues. Frankly, the comments that tell people to search more aren't as much of an issue to me as the more drawn out stuff, like the show off thread I linked to. Stating that someone is inconsiderate and doesn't have common sense because they didn't follow a rule that isn't posted seems...off to me.

But anyway, this is somewhat off topic :lol:

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Madii » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:20 am

Pallidity wrote:I don't think it's necessarily said that time is being wasted, but it's implied when the comments aren't particularly friendly and disregard the question.
Ah, so it's implied? Generally I don't think to assume that I know that other people mean anything other than what they say. I think the "implied" meaning you find there is more your subjective interpretation. I'm dealing purely with the objective examples of what people have said, not what I think they're saying. One I have hard evidence for existing, the other is a little more difficult to prove it's actually there.
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Pallidity » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:22 am

Madii wrote:
Pallidity wrote:I don't think it's necessarily said that time is being wasted, but it's implied when the comments aren't particularly friendly and disregard the question.
Ah, so it's implied? Generally I don't think to assume that I know that other people mean anything other than what they say. I think the "implied" meaning you find there is more your subjective interpretation. I'm dealing purely with the objective examples of what people have said, not what I think they're saying. One I have hard evidence for existing, the other is a little more difficult to prove it's actually there.
You may be right, though I don't know what other point there would be in commenting with something like that. It'd be a lot easier to just ignore the thread.

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Madii » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:26 am

Pallidity wrote:
Madii wrote:
Pallidity wrote:I don't think it's necessarily said that time is being wasted, but it's implied when the comments aren't particularly friendly and disregard the question.
Ah, so it's implied? Generally I don't think to assume that I know that other people mean anything other than what they say. I think the "implied" meaning you find there is more your subjective interpretation. I'm dealing purely with the objective examples of what people have said, not what I think they're saying. One I have hard evidence for existing, the other is a little more difficult to prove it's actually there.
You may be right, though I don't know what other point there would be in commenting with something like that. It'd be a lot easier to just ignore the thread.
And here's where opinions are fundamentally divided by personal morality and beliefs.
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Pallidity » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:31 am

Madii wrote:And here's where opinions are fundamentally divided by personal morality and beliefs.
There's really no morality in ignoring a thread :P If anything, it would force the person to search on their own without being made to feel as though they've done something wrong by asking for help.

When it comes to something being implied, I generally base it off of context clues. Using all caps indicates shouting, and shouting something like "FFS" implies exasperation...not that I don't think it was justified when it comes to the particular instance I'm referring to.

It doesn't really happen on here much, but when it does it seems to turn into a big thing at some point or another, whether it's in the same thread or across several threads.

On the subject of rude communities, you are right. I usually just search those for the info I want without bothering to join, but most of them are newsy or something pretty simple. The few communities I'm in that are based on a skill that people develop and use to make some dollah have been friendly as far as I'm aware. I'm not on them enough to notice when someone gets irritated generally. Two of them I'm in really scoff at that kind of thing.

I think being pretty active on VF makes you apt to be more considerate of the dumb/lazy ones, though, since there's no search feature and organization is still pretty obnoxious. I can't tell you how many times I've answered "How many bags of hair do I need?!" Following a suggestion someone else made, I've started copying and pasting answers from a notpad file full of them :lol:

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by guest123 » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:05 am

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by ScarletLady » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:17 am

a lot of these things tho are to do with general forum etiquette and obviously real net n00bs may not have had a chance to build that up yet and might just get over excited or whatever and start posting without thinking. However I'll admit that I wouldn't post somewhere without reading the rules first and getting a feel for the place...but not everyone's the same
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Pallidity » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:21 am

stinamoo wrote:The thing is, you can get quite a sense of the place by just reading through the forums. Even by just looking through the rules, announcements and site details you find out quite a lot (including the backup of the old board ;)).
I wouldn't start a new thread on a forum without looking and thinking - there's been a couple of instances where someone has asked a question like 'how do i bleach my hair blonde from dyed black' without any extra details and there's a descriptively titled relevant thread on the first page of the subforum. I can appreciate that not everyone has the time to look through pages of search results, but on the other hand some people are being very generous with their time and knowledge and it seems a little insulting to expect them to reply specifically to your (general you!) post with the same information they've given a hundred times before.
Not posting multiple threads in the showoff section also just seems like common sense to me - creating multiple threads in a short space of time isn't something I'd do anywhere on the internet.
Well, on the subject of multiple threads, there's an admin that does it, so I would assume that might invalidate any other practices the n00b sees.

I agree with everything else said, but I don't think it's necessarily something everyone is going to know to do, particularly if they've never been on a board before.

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Vicsarina » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:23 pm

Before the old board died a horrible death, there was a split. A split between those who thought the world should be all sunshine and butterflies, and the others who thought we should be able to say what needs to be said without coating it in sugar. When this board was created, I remember distinctly that the mods said we didn't have to coat everything in sugar.


We tried being nice to K.O.D. Unfortunately if some people don't listen and learn if no one speaks up. Sometimes if you sugar coat, people gloss over it. If you say please, some people think 'Forget that'. Blunt, honest, and maybe slightly rude(Although in K.O.D.'s case, we'd got fed up by then), it sticks.


Now to specifics, K.O.D. by the time that thread was posted has sent me a nasty pm, one that told me to F*ahem* OFF amongst other things. I eventually got an apology for that. She would ignore advice, create alternate personae, including one that was just found out the past week(Honestly, using the same MySpace isn't the most clever thing to do). She even stole tutorials from DTBD. And then there was that rather insensitive comment in the Abortion thread.


And honestly, if they can't take the 'rudeness' of this board, how on Earth do they survive in real life? Seriously? This board is tame, people are cruel. It could be a lot worse. I've seen a lot worse.
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by ScarletLady » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:29 pm

Well I think what it comes down to is a matter of personal preference in how people want to interact with other people...If it's not breaking the rules then we have to like it or lump it (I'm talking about people's reactions to n00bs, along with n00bs and their foibles etc). A newbie can ask a stupid question as there is no rule against it...and a regular member can comment on the stupidity of the question (without being blatantly aggresive or intimidating) as there is no rule against that either. As this was originally about banned member's being named and shamed and I doubt if anyone has been banned over their treatment of newbies (I may be wrong but I can't remember anything that was THAT bad) then it's all irrelevant really :D

Sorry - just trying to get back on topic :lol:
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Madii » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:42 pm

Pallidity wrote:Well, on the subject of multiple threads, there's an admin that does it, so I would assume that might invalidate any other practices the n00b sees.
Now that's hypocrisy! Image

And ScarletLady, I just went and checked the rules in the top forum, and I've probably broken nearly every one of them in some people's views. Definitely the swearing one. I should probably be banned. :)
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Phoenix » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:46 pm

May I direct you all to rule no. 5 of the forum rules:

5) Keep topics PG13 - we don't have to be all nice and sugary, but nothing too graphic please.

Carry on.

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by sammu » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:49 pm

WOW.

Okay wow. Just. Wow.

Back it the heck up here!

Firstly I said REPEAT OFFENDERS. I'm not the big asshole you make me out to be. Seriously. If it were someone NEW then I'd either ignore it, or help them out, and state that by checking search, they'd have found something. The "126 answers to her exact question" that I was going on about neither refers to K.O.D, or the old board, so I've no idea where that was pulled up from. If I remember rightly, a LOT of people were getting annoyed at K.O.D because she REPEATEDLY acted odd, and against the general status quo of the board. Like, ALL THE TIME. Even a few Mods were getting weary of her shenanigans. (Man, I love that word) and some members actually AGREED when someone stepped up in this land of rainbows and shininess to say something to her about it.

If you'd check my recent posts, I've commented without snark to a lot of people recently. GASP. Sam, actually helping people? Well I never. :lol: That's what I do. I LOVE helping people. I LOVE sharing advice, tips, pizza toppings, you name it. I'd give the shirt off my back for a lot of people. I'm not some bigshot ego-fuelled maniac, just because I have the guts to tell the truth.

But I refuse to sugar coat everything. Why? Because real life isn't about sunshine lollypops, rainbows and everything, so I don't expect the internet to be. If someone acts consistently stupid, then I will call out on it. People, at the end of the day, need to learn. There are some AWESOME new members of this board that I really enjoy reading up on... like how their dreads improve, and how they actually give a hoot about this community. It thrills me. They've learnt what it's like on this board. They know which way the river flows. Then there are people, who, no matter how long they've been a member, just... act stupid. Almost like they do it on purpose. And believe me, a few of them do.

At the end of the day, we're all free people to do what we want. I'm not a bully by any means. I state facts, I give a reason. I don't do it for the lulz, and I don't do it for some weird... internet credibility. Now this topic has really deviated from what it's really about, and this random personal attack can just... fizzle out and calm down...

*poops a unicorn*
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by TOXIKITTY » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:51 pm

*chucks in her 1.22125 pence*

I think some of these things possibly need to be added to the rules section, not nescessarily as a rule, just a "forum etiquette" page or something. Like the thing that was going on a few weeks ago about people posting in old show offs (which I saw mentioned in the "Posts that don't deserve their own thread" thread), you're not likely to know this might annoy people if you're a new member. Maybe something that explains how it's polite to search for old threads that might cover your question before starting a new thread. What sorts of post people don't mind being "necro-ed", and which they do. I don't think you can be too hard on people for things that aren't covered in the "Forum rules - read BEFORE posting" section. You can read all of that and STILL make 'rookie mistakes'. Common sense is not something everyone has.

And as for being rude to people who ask silly questions.. that might be classed as belittling which IS mentioned in the rules. *shrugs*

I'm kinda new myself and being made to feel a tit for asking a question would definitely put me off wanting to be part of the community.. I'd get the impression everyone was rude. Best thing to do it just pat them on the head and hope they're not so silly in all aspects of their life?

..but none of this really has anything to do with banned members being named, which I am in favour of. If someone has done something to justify being banned then there's no reason not to name, shame and warn others (as far as I can see ;))

*runs away before it all kicks off*

This thread is turning scary, and I have a nervous disposition, hehe *hiccup*
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by ScarletLady » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:56 pm

Well I did try and get it back on topic :roll:

@Madii - We get politely asked not to swear or it get's removed (altho i'm sure it's allowed in A&C as long as it's not attacking memebers), I don't remember you ever being agressive or intimidating - well not anything I've found intimidating anyway - the same goes for Cirquemachine. I pointed out that everyone has a different way of talking and responding to people (some poop unicorns and some don't...to coin a phrase) and as long as that's in the rules (at the Mods discretion for certain things (swearing etc)) then there's nothing wrong with it
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by sammu » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:58 pm

ScarletLady wrote:some poop unicorns and some don't...to coin a phrase.
This new phrase makes me happy. :lol:

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Vicsarina » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:58 pm

CirqueMachine wrote:
ScarletLady wrote:some poop unicorns and some don't...to coin a phrase.
This new phrase makes me happy. :lol:

Sounds painful...
*Rule Obsessor*

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ScarletLady
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by ScarletLady » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:00 pm

CirqueMachine wrote:
ScarletLady wrote:some poop unicorns and some don't...to coin a phrase.
This new phrase makes me happy. :lol:
:D

I am a Libran...I try to be diplomatic at all times ;)
scarlet's taking over the asylum aka ladypanel

* Queen of Tangents*

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