Would you like a banned members list?

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Should permanently banned members be named publically?

Poll ended at Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:01 pm

yes
114
97%
no
4
3%
 
Total votes: 118

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MissAnthropik
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Would you like a banned members list?

Post by MissAnthropik » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:01 pm

Whilst it is rare unfortunately there are occasions when we have to permanently ban members. Rest assured this only happens after warnings and temporary bans and the opportunity to put things right.

Members would only be permanently banned if their behaviour has had, or is having, a serious negative impact on members of the community, or the community at large, and if they have ignored opportunities to change their behaviour or make amends.

Once a member has been permanently banned they are not permitted to re-register on the board, and their IP can be banned. However, as we all know IPs are a very crude tool to assist with this sort of thing. The moderators do their best to spot any banned members re-registering and potentially causing trouble.

We want to know whether you would like to know who the permanently banned members are, and a brief outline of what they were banned for. We ourselves are in two minds:
1) Members have a right to know who is banned, and who to look out for returning to the board who may potentially cause more problems in the future. It shows we take your safe and happy use of the board seriously, and listen when you have issues on the board. It could also act as a potential deterrent to would-be scammers and trouble makers
2) Do we have the right to expose people publically? This may lead to problems in their offline real flesh and blood life.

So we thought we would put it to the community to decide, referendum style, so please vote: Should permanently banned members' names be posted in a list, or should this information continue to be held only privately by the moderators (you can of course always contact us if you are worried about the behaviour of any board member)?

If you have any comments or suggestions please feel free to add them to this list.

This post will remain open for TWO WEEKS and will close on 3 JULY 2009 at 2200 GMT
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Madii
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Madii » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:59 am

I think it important that with any naming and shaming, the reasons for their public banhammering be put up along with them, so everyone knows what to expect from these people when they encounter them, and why they were banned. Similar to the Non-Performing Sellers list, known aliases should also be posted to provide as full a warning as possible to all.
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Acorn
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Acorn » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:38 am

i think its a good idea, could really help people being ripped off like some have been in the past :(
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Lilinth
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Lilinth » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:19 pm

i think its a good idea to post their names and especially why, it would bith show that permanent bans are only provided for good reasons (to avoid argument and discourage others), as well as explaining why certain people have disappeared from the community
not so much a fan of things like their real names and such, perhaps if this happens the mods should delete any links to online profiles they have made to stop them being harassed after the fact?
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Sophrodisiac
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Sophrodisiac » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:24 pm

I agree that they should be named and shamed because if they have been given so many chances, and still repeated the same problem or continued to be a pain then they obviously are not willing to put things right and people should be warned of those people.
I think within reason though, obviously they shouldn't be hassled and insulted after they have been banned, but they're name and why they were banned should be simply so people know. ^^
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Bomber » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:31 pm

I think, while letting people know why people have been banned is on paper a good idea, it doesn't always work in practise.

Say someone is banned for x reason. This person's friends could start trouble over why they've been banned, start arguments with mods etc, especially if the banned person talks to them via IM or something, saying they've been banned unfairly etc etc. It's just an example but it could happen.

I suppose a way round it would be to make disagreeing with mod decisions about banning a bannable offence but then you could end up with far too strict a forum. Unless some happy medium can be reached?

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halocaustic
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by halocaustic » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:49 pm

We normally only ban if we have good evidence of bad behaviour. We really only do it if we absolutely have to or after several warnings - all of which we have well documented.

People can argue with us if they want to...but, if we have evidence, it's going to be a very pointless argument! ;)
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Ice_Pick_Abortions » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:42 pm

i think it's important to name them and give the reason, if for nothing else than to keep everyone in the loop. some people may have customers in the middle of orders or something so would need to know why someone isn't around any more. plus i'm nosey :p
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night_wolf
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by night_wolf » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:47 pm

I believe the reason is much more important to me than the shaming of the person itself.

Either way I'm for showing banned members, I've found other forums do, without backlash at all to the community or the moderators/admins.

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MissAnthropik
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by MissAnthropik » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:13 pm

If it is agreed that we are to name the members we would include an overview of why they were banned. The idea isn't to shame them it is to assist members on the board

At this stage the list is very short and we hope it remains that way :)
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luvplacebo
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by luvplacebo » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:29 pm

I think it would be a good idea, I nearly entered a sale with a non-performing seller but I checked the list. I think it'd be useful to have one for banned members, as well as being able to find out why they were banned it'd stop people wondering where the person they're selling/trading to has gone.
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starlight
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by starlight » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:23 pm

I think it's a good idea, just post their username on here + why they were banned, I'm not sure about posting any other known online names, it might be useful but could cause trouble.. and I don't think real names should be posted.

sammu
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by sammu » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:29 pm

I don't think it's advisable to list real names, but any and ALL nicknames/aliases should be listed. There's one person in particular that has been banned from here, and I can count at least 4 names they've used on other internet communities.

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by halocaustic » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:38 pm

CirqueMachine wrote:I don't think it's advisable to list real names, but any and ALL nicknames/aliases should be listed. There's one person in particular that has been banned from here, and I can count at least 4 names they've used on other internet communities.
info along those lines is always welcome ;)
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rivetlicker_
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by rivetlicker_ » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:49 am

This seems like a good idea to protect the interests of other members, especially those who were looking to trade with them.
It's like the non-performing sellers list and the copyright infringers section, only for troublemakers. Every forum has a troll (or two), so members should be well informed of who is causing the trouble. Of course they're not going to exactly troll publically, because they abuse the PM system more often.

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by hokumdeadfall » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:05 pm

sorry...but

HARRRAH

right with your there rivetlicker
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LittlePinkFaery
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by LittlePinkFaery » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:13 pm

we encourage EVERYONE who receives trolling/ selling/ spamming/ nasty PMs to tell us about it...it is AS BAD as doing it publically!

You must ALWAYS tell us!

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MistressH
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by MistressH » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:40 pm

i think that if there is to be an announcement then it should be on a board that isnt visible to non members. i know it is very easy to register here but let me explain why.

i use this same username on many different sites. if someone googled me and something i had done that a certain community felt was wrong became public knowledge it would also effect other communities i belong in. If someone breaks the rules here why should they be punished for it elsewhere?

Also if you state that A was banned for scamming people cant A then prosecute the board for libel. You'd have to have a lot of proof in that case......

i understand why banning IP addresses doesnt always work but wouldnt it be easier to check the IP address new members register on and if it comes up as a 'match' to someone banned then keep that new member on a 'watched' list. Only moderators need know who that new member is. Other members are protected due to the no trading with members under 30day rule.

Personally I think being banned should be enough

edited as i thought it was a 3month rule for some reason!

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LittlePinkFaery
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by LittlePinkFaery » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:48 pm

interesting commnets...but I give you an example:

there was a person that w#s known as a scammer on other forums non hair related. We had tem here as a member and had no idea about them. They used a different name.

People from the other non hair related commiunities traced them on HH- we still did not know.

Then they scammed our members...and suddenly it fell into place when some members connected with both interest areas realised who they were.

Now, people regually tell other forums/ internet sites when they are trying to tade with people.

Is it wrong that people are able to forwarn others about a scammer who continues to try to be a confidence trickster and scam people?
(if anyone recognises this, polease don't mention names).

Would it be good that we can be of useful service by mentioning their past misdemeanors with us?

Just playing devil's advocate here...would you have wanted to know if you were scammed and someone somewher could have warned you?

not putting you down, we seriously want all thoughts on this- hence putting it to you guys, as we were split about it.

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LittlePinkFaery
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by LittlePinkFaery » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:51 pm

ps- a 30 day rule does nothing to protect people if they trade by Pm with someone and a lot of confidence tricksters build up a reputation first. This is more about letting members know who is banned and why so that they can look out for them returning and be cautious about dealing with them outside of HEF- remember it is also about people who are continually rude and abusive not just trading.

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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by hokumdeadfall » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:01 pm

Basically, if people think that they can scam people then they deserve to be named and shamed... and that goes for any forum/medium

END OF!

Especially as I for one, have come to see people on here being good, reliable and honest people, and it's these people who want to trade on here!

Why should some scumbag take advantage of this when sellers could be warned?

and @MistressH: I have found the mods on this site to get right to the bottom of something before taking any action. Any deformation is mostly dealt with because of an adequate amount of proof before a ban is enforced.

A simple ban won't work because some scammers are very lucretive and will happily sign up to this site again, bump up their counts with little effort and do it all again! At least with naming and shaming, people can identify writing styles ect of some of these people, and know the type of things they write etc
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Lorny
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Lorny » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:52 pm

littlepinkfaery wrote: Just playing devil's advocate here...would you have wanted to know if you were scammed and someone somewher could have warned you?
Had it not been for someone on another community letting us know about the scamming, we would have just carried on thinking it was bad post!

I think it's a really good idea to let people know about other member's pasts. If you are a trickster once, no doubt you're going to do it again...
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MistressH
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by MistressH » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:55 pm

well i think the decision has been made from the above poll LOL

just because someone has broken rules here though i still dont feel they should be punished elsewhere. Although it is different with intentional scamming and obviously if it could stop people from being scammed then i guess it only has to be a good thing!

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Lorny
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by Lorny » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:58 pm

MistressH wrote:Although it is different with intentional scamming and obviously if it could stop people from being scammed then i guess it only has to be a good thing!
How do you unintentionally scam people? :lol:
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LittlePinkFaery
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Re: Would you like a banned members list?

Post by LittlePinkFaery » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:01 pm

I am sure we would be more than happy to update the list and state if a person had amended their wrongs ( if it was trading related- if behaviour then there is no way we would know).

My heart is kinda on my sleeve with this one....I should be impartial- oops!

unintentional scamming LOL! there is a term we can use for people that 'forget' to finish orders and claim many an 'issue' that turns out to be true! they didn't mean to do it...but did it anyway LOL!

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